InsideTech

 I Know what you Mean, One thing about IT is technology is likely to start putting us out of work.. We are competing for work in many sititions with people over in indian & china that will work for $4 an hour which to them is a fortune Because the internet speeds are getting high enough that people can work from a third world country without noticing speed differences..

our days of even having jobs in It, except of course for the jobs you physically need to be there may be numbered, The value of the $ is going down, IT Wages are going down But the cost of living is going up.. We all may need to find new careers soon

A couple of points for Snow_Fox and anyone else who's interested:

1. If you want to be in IT, start by learning the basics at home. Get a couple of old PC's, some CAT5 cable, and a switch, hub or whatever. Load a Linux distro on one and Windows on the other.  Start playing around with all the various services. Run a web server, ftp server, print server; expose a shared file system to Windows with Samba. Set up a firewall and proxy server.  Access graphical sessions on the Linux host from Windows using Cygwin X.  Learn shell scripting in both systems (try Ruby and Windows command scripting).  If you can learn even half of that stuff, you will be FAR ahead of your competition, both on-shore and off.  And if this doesn't sound like fun, then perhaps you should reconsider.


2. Off-shoring and out-sourcing is NOT a problem, it is a reality.  The question then is not how are we going to solve it, but rather how are we going to co-exist.  The ability to speak native English is primarily relevant to Service Desk operations, and that is but a small part of the global sourcing picture.  The key to coexisting with global competition is first of all getting to know your competition, and their strengths and weaknesses -- it isn't that difficult.  Determine your own strengths (or what strengths you want to develop) and then you can strategize on being competitive.  It is the same as in any market, global or local.


3. Lastly, a reality check: the market already HAS moved to India, and the Phillipines, and China and Costa Rica, and Eastern Europe, and... don't get left behind.  There will always be careers in IT no matter where you are.  Just don't expect them to look like they did five or ten years ago.  Getting into IT now requires a fair amount of research and creativity -- the traditional approaches just don't cut it anymore.

You know, nothing in IT looks like it did ten years ago, and that's a source of great opportunity.  As a relative late comer to IT (I switched careers a few years ago) I took great comfort from the fact that IT changes so quickly.  With a reasonable amount of diligence and effort, after five years a newcomer can be on nearly equal standing with many IT veterens.  The vet's stories of the days of mini-computers won't count for much if they aren't up to speed on the latest products.

Snow_Fox says ...

On the issue of outsourcing. It isn't so much an issue that I mean will literally "go away". To be more accurate I mean there are things which can be done, that if people realize they can do it and start doing it, situations will improve at least to some degree.

Jobs in The States as a whole are down at the moment.. However,thats part of the economy here.I view IT just like any other career... You have to work  your way up, you have to keep working to stay on top. Different people have different levels that its worth to them. For me its worth it to learn everything I can. I never in my academic life had anything as rewarding as when I manage to complete an assigned program. Even getting into college itself wasn't that rewarding. I firmly believe that with experience (from everywhere home,business and school) and a degree..  There is good money to be made.

You seem to be motivated, and that's definitely a good sign.  You are correct about having to work your way up (I would have chosen "in" as the preposition), and you have to keep working to stay on top.  I would liken it to the life of a shark... it is necessary to keep moving simply to survive.  The IT world absolutely does not tolerate stagnation, and this is different from many other fields.  Even today, in many careers you can find a comfortable spot and your position will be as stable as your employer.  Not so in IT -- the instant you stop learning and developing your career, you start becoming obsolete, and soon you are out on the street.

The off-shoring situation is improving, as wage pressures in developing nations like India and China reduce the cost-competitiveness of those locations.  Outsourcing, which is a whole different thing by the way, will not "improve" from your perspective.  Companies have realized (correctly) that they cannot provide the IT services upon which they depend in a cost effective manner by doing everything in-house.  As my former employer said, "we are a manufacturing company, not an IT company."  This is a reality that is unlikely to change any time soon.

You are really pathetic man.  All dignity out the window for you and in the end you will still get it up the A$$.

mrpumpkinguy says ...

I really can't blame the CxO's, officers, directors and others... I wouldn't know from personal experience but I'm pretty certain that annual incentive packages amounting to millions of dollars would be highly addictive.  I have heard about what addictions do to one's sense of morality and compassion, not to mention one's self esteem.  An addiction of any kind has an overall dehumanizing effect on the addict and wide spread destructive effects on everyone around him or her.

And as an acquaintance of mine put it, CEO's have a pretty wide "blast radius", so when they do something destructive there is a lot of potential for damage!

But where can someone with a assocaite degree in computers get a job with no certfications or any xp these days. I just interviewed for Target and they are realy squeezing you for every detail or defict, its redictulise, how hard it is to find work these days even for a regular 8.00 hr position. My gosh like you realy need someone with a  4yr degree to fit the criteir.

Even data entry  work at home jobs are hard to find, with all those scams out there.

Im thinking ot enrolling at Cappellia online for a bachulars in It Security, but i wanna find a decent job before i do. I need some ideas how to get pc xp.

And i do agree its wall street saving there asses while our beloved government bails them out and pockets the debt yet again.

It seems our nations main issue is the currency system is so under valued its crazy.. Wouldn't it be great if we could just start over with a clean slate, refreshed money system.

With technology rising, and replacing old ways with computerized systems. Jobs are being replaced by computers. We need to create new job systems for the growing technology and better our education system. We should think of a world like in STar Trek , were we would strive to better ourselves for a common good rather than greed and survival. But we will never be able to see that imbition when where fighting over resourses or power.

osowskig says ...

You are really pathetic man.  All dignity out the window for you and in the end you will still get it up the A$$.

I have no idea what you are referring to.

Ok, sry but you didn't point out who it was applied to, was just under my post so I was just checking.

Wow, I am a new comer in the IT world and after reading most of this forum, I feel like running away. The one thing I can add is that I am coming from another industry hurt even worse that The IT field and that is the Automotive Field. In the past five years I have gone from making over 70K a year to barley making 20K a year how’s that for having 25 years of experience in the field if you think it's bad in IT don't check out the rest of the world because it is in a lot worse shape. The one thing I do known about the IT field is that it will never stop growing and at some point in time, perhaps not my life time but IT people will have more jobs than any other field in this country.  Just think about all the new things that have been invented over the past 10 years or so most of them involve the IT world in one way or another. I feel fortunate enough to have the smarts to get me through school and into this field. The hardest part of the IT world is keeping up with the technology, but if you can do that, you will never fear losing your job from where I am sitting. I think a positive attitude along with as much knowledge as your brain can hold is the key to success in anything you do in life. If you are not willing to put in the time to learn new things and except new Ideas then perhaps it is time for change. I didn't grow in the computer age and that gives me a huge disadvantage but that is a challenge I plan to conquer and over come. As A Marine we were taught to evaluate the situation adapt to it and then annihilate it that is the attitude I bring to this field.  I don't think I am alone either, there are a lot of people change their fields now and many are coming over to IT so if you think that you have problems now what is going to happen when these new people such as myself are ready to make that step. The competition will become even harder. The grass is never greener on the other side so everyone just needs to make and attitude adjustment and go on when this country comes out of this recession and we will where do you want to be sitting.

I think one thing that really needs to stop is the short term bonuses for CEOs, CIOs, COOs, relative to short term savings in IT.  My past place of employment jumped on the outsourcing bandwagon with glee like a group of drooling idiots.....only to find out what most of us already knew. Lack of communication skills, lack of responsibility and consequences for the out-of-country outsourcing company that provided inferior, and quite often an inoperable product, or at least one with numerous bugs that eroded the quality of the product. And then there is always the need to rework and renegotiate the contract relative to deliverables and the expected quality with constant evaluation of that which is delivered over time. Otherwise, the cost/benefit of outsourcing is usually lost over time.

Sure, it could be viewed by some employees as job security(an illusion), since they had to fix the bugs, but the ones who really enjoyed it were the higher ups, who received bonuses for in all certainty costing the company more money to repair the product. However, those costs didn't show in the quarterly report so all was good <sigh>. Time away from other projects, because the programming projects required reworks and fixes, which then caused a domino effect on future projects and the quality of the current product. I'm not against people making money or getting bonuses for concrete and real results, it's just that I think a more rational and real approach is required......one that shows results and real gains, not trumped up or cooked book processing.

Just my humble opinion...take it or leave it.

bigmike2238 says ...

Most employers are looking to maintain a cohesive work place; with employees that are as ambishious as they are passionate about their job.

Having been through a major layoff (more than 90% of IT staff shown the door) in a Fortune 500 company, I would say that is not always the case.  The company had lots of good people who had a great deal of talent and passion for their work, and it became quite obvious that all of that is of little value when the company decides to outsource.

The experience simply taught me (once again) that loyalty to a publicly traded employer is ill advised... the professional version of unrequited love.  I was subject to the whims of the market place, and when the collective value proposition of my colleagues and me became less than that of an outsourcing organization, our passion, loyalty and everything else became irrelevant.

Personally, I am in IT because I like it (Note: I like my vocation, I love my wife -- big difference, and too many people abuse the latter verb).  While I am always aware that I am very much blessed to be able to do something I like and get a steady paycheck for it, I will also maintain a certain mercenary attitude as well.  This is necessary for survival in the world of corporate IT.

I have noticed, in my area at least, that there are several IT related jobs, however, most of them require a few or several years in experience + a BA or something similar.  Hard to find work if no entry level jobs are available or no one wants to take a chance.  Don't under estimate the person just because of the "Experience" they don't have.

It might surprise you.