InsideTech

yes I go to IU but I go to the southeast campus in New Albany Indiana. We have some perdue students here as well. I hear a lot of good things about their programs. IUS which is the acronym for it is actually tring to break away from IU. I don't understand the whole story and haven't payed a lot of atention to it, but from what I am hearing now the degress read Indiana University Souteast , instead of Indian University. I think right now my biggest problem is I am to impatient and want to know everything yesterday so I get started in my new career ya know. I never checked the definition on the net before that is cool I will check it out later, and thanks for pointing it out to me.

Thanks Darltk

   This is the kind of info we as new commers need to know, As you said you have to keep reinventing yourself, and we need to invent who we are going to be. I keep seeing Security reaching the top of most of these lists. What do we know in order to go that avenue. In other words if you where in school what classes would take to make sure you best equipted to go into the security aspect of the IT world. I know there are many different names for the course but if you wil list it best you can I would be greatful.

mz_dori says ...

I got my start in the IT field late in life, as you did Kennith. I don't know if I had a mid-life crisis or what. I had been in retail for 25 years and knew I couldn't do it any more. It all started when I got involved with a group of people who are scattered all over the globe. They taught me a lot of things. My first experience doing any type of coding was with MSN groups. Next it was MIRC scripts. Then it was image editing. From there it developed into a Love of Web and graphic design.

I am the first to admit that what I know is a tiny drop in the bucket to what there is to know. I read a lot of information about how this IT job will be the best and that IT job will pay more in X amount of days. For me it isn't about pay or popularity. It is about doing what makes me happy. I started college at 40 years old and am at the tail end of my associates degree. I will start on my Bachelors in November at the age of 42. I will be done with college at the age of 44. A new life, a new beginning. I don't know if I would be in this field if it was available when I got out of high school or not though. At that age, I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. It only took me over 23 years to figure that out and I am still not sure.

I have a lot of questions and I am never afraid to ask them. Typically if I want to learn something I will surf until I find the answer. I am a master surfer, LoL. I do have an idea for a group of professionals that outsource their IT skills, based in the United States. I started a group called Ring Around The Techies, if anyone is interested. Right now it is a lot of what if's and what I can do's. But I think it would be a way to combat the outsourcing that goes on over seas. If only we could find a backer..........

I am SO interested. I think I'll do some asking around for backers if you want...We have tons of big it corporations with a mind to assist the economy here in the northwest.

Thanks Guru42

     As you said I am starting late in the game going to school part time and don't have time to waste. I wish it was as easy as you are making it seem, but my proplem is I don't know yet what interests me the most in the IT world. everything is new and fun right now so It is difficult for me so i am going to concentrate on one particular area. If the truth be known some day I would love to get involve in 3 D medical technologies and working with 3 D programming of robots, but can I really get there from here by just focusing on one area at a time or do I need to learn a lot about many differtn areas. I guess I need to make my mind up as to what direction I want to go in, perhaps that will help me to narrow down my focus as you are sugesting.

So then this next question will really get me past my greatest issue I am facing right now. I have heard education does not count as experience,  so I have been looking at things at the wrong way and thinking I only have 1 year. Along with recruiters saying the same thing, it is a little disenchanting. Coming here is a nice wave past all that mess. I would love to hear from anyone that has passed this little boat and share what they did. Has anyone out of college applied for a job that did not have the three years of experience other than college get the job?

I started working on the two projects in 2008. From 2000 to 2006 I was in school, the only projects I did were assignment projects. The two projects in 2008 are database programs that track scouts and their advancement. The first project was for a boy scout troop and the second was for a venture troop. Does that change things?

I confess that "mrpumpkinman" has stated a primary reason why I haven't participated for several days. Seems the discussions have gone past "real" questions to topics that can be answered by any recruiter. I agree with mrpumkinman that it's all much less about the exact number of days/months/years you've worked and more about putting your experience, whatever it is, into well-described projects you've accomplished and the skills you've attained. Saying you've done "some scouting projects" is less impressive than describing what techniques and current technologies were applied, whether it was finished on time, early, etc., etc. - in other words, what you have demonstrated about figuring out solutions and applying technologies to implement them. Something like "...over a two year period, successfully implemented two mobile applications developed utilizing C++/.Net/or-whatever-leading-edge-language that reduced scouting emergency response times by 50%."  Also agree with the volunteer idea - you can learn a lot by doing needed community projects.  I just built a web portal for our homeowner's association and learned quite a bit doing it - including how to ensure everything is secured to only homeowners.  Naturally, this was an unpaid "engagement". And finally, if you have a "dream" like a specialized medical application, then do some research on that "vertical" so you can focus on the most common technologies used and planned - some healthcare/insurance companies are modernizing old assembler/COBOL/etc. code into .NET applications, for example. Use Google, Bing, or whatever and do a research project on your area of interest to find out what they need/want so you can include in your learning plan and thread into your resume as keywords, etc. 

Sniper - glad if any comments helped and sorry recruiters you have talked to have not been as helpful.

Another thought, whether you need a degree or not often depends on the company. Some quite honestly won't even talk to you without a degree - period. If it's a well-known company and they get lots of resumes from qualified people, the degree helps filter the number of resumes they need to review down to a manageable number. Once again, do some research to find out what companies do or don't require a degree. If you don't have a degree, then if you are willing to get one and put in the effort to get one while also working, check into what companies have a benefit that helps pay for degrees. When I worked for Texas Instruments, they paid 90% of my MBA from Southern Methodist University - an excellent benefit considering what it costs to go to school there, even part time.

As I look at many posts here, it seems many of you interested in the IT field may not be taking enough advantage of the information IT has helped make available to you - on the internet. Figure out what you need to know to hunt for a job and do the research. I just entered "programmer opportunities without a college degree" into google and found this site:  www.it-career-coach.net  and I'm sure you can find more. On this site, there is even an archived article about getting a job without a degree under the Archives section - August 2007.

kennethfsk says ...

       Mrpumpkinguy, I have to say I am a little upset at your comments. If you read the head of this topic it is for people like me who are looking for career advice, and up to this point, I thought it was going well. People like Barbarace, Guru42, and Darltk have been extremely helpful with advice about areas to look into and places to get the information we need. You have even chimed in a few times with some great advice up to know that is. I don’t care what the other 90% of the people in this forum are doing, and that is not what this is discussion is covering.

You are more than a little upset, and I am truly sorry about that.  But it's understandable given that you seem to have confused "forum" with "topic thread" when you read my post.  When I referred to the forum, I was pointing to the collective Forums content, and not to your individual topic thread, which I have been happy to participate in.  The topic thread is yours, meaning that you started it, and the forum belongs to the community (and monster.com of course).  And by the way, starting a thread does not imply editorial control over all subsequent comments.  This is not a moderated forum.

You have inferred that some of my comments were directed at you personally, and that is unfortunate.  No offense intended, but I wasn't thinking of you at all while I was composing that post.

Look, I'm not coming down on anyone that is honestly trying to help out others.  I was merely pointing out that the quantity and quality of the technical and career development content at Inside Tech is perhaps not the best available for a motivated person such as sniper4983, seeking to break into or move ahead with an IT career.  That's all. 

As an aside, I was trying to make the point (perhaps unsuccesfully) that this is a community effort, and the Inside Tech community seems pretty sparse.  There is a very small number that actually contributes worthwhile content that is relevant to the topic and theme of the web site, but those contributions are infrequent.  My impression (admittedly based on only one month of observation) is that the majority of regular participants seem to spend their time chasing reputation points, which I would hardly call fun, but hey, each to his own.  In my view, these are definitely not the signs of a healthy online community that is supposed to be all about technology and IT as a profession.

These are simply my opinions based on observation and personal experience.  And as I have said before, I guarantee my opinions to be worth at least what you paid for them.

Kennethfsk we must live in the same area if you are attending IUS, I also live in Southern Indiana near Scottsburg.  I just completed my AS in IT with Network at the University of Phoenix.  I will start the BS in Computer Science 6/29/09.  I wanted to go back to school for IT because for the last 12 years I have learned specialized programs and been able to teach them to others.  When I went back into the healthcare field I became the person who was taught how to monitor the interface.  I soon realized that I was doing 90% of the work (the research of the problem) and then turning over to people who made way more than I did to fix it.  I chose an online program because I needed to be able to keep my current job while I went back to school.  I picked UofP because of all of the good things I heard about it from other students.  I am currently trying to find a job in IT but everyone wants to know how many years of "verifiable experience" I have.  I thought if I had a degree I would be able to get a job no problem.  I am finding out that IT is a field that you can get very far with no degree or certificate just on the job training.  I am lucky that I still have my current job in healthcare so I am not unemployed searching for a job. I can stay at my present job until I find my first IT job so in this economy that is a big blessing.

How do you like IUS?  My son is thinking of attending.  He will be a HS senior this fall and is looking at colleges already.

Well Ken, I've been reading this thread and all of the different posts, and

to tell you the truth Ken....you are going to get advice from all different types of people

within IT, and while those people may be experts, sometimes their perspectives are biased.

For instance, somebody might not like Bill Gates, so they will steer clear of using MS

products at any cost, even if those products may benefit their operations(just a simple example,

many others could be cited).



I'm not sure if anyone could really predict the best thing to go into; however, I've noticed

some good advice listed. I looked for IT work for approximately one year after I had graduated

with a B.S. in MIS. The company found my resume on my University's career site. Unfortunately,

I can't say tell you exactly what to go into, only give you advice that I have received from

others with whom I worked, and my own experiences. Like many people newbies or experts that is

what you will receive. You have to investigate into the advice provided, after that it's

pretty much up to you. After all, I received some advice to get a job with Jesus from somebody,

he's always hiring. Now, I understand faith and belief systems, how it may comfort people, but

not sure if that person was serious or joking( doesn't really matter to me), but I myself

would argue that whether it is really very good IT advice.

paulabeth129 says ...

... moral indignation snipped...

  Your signature says you work for Jesus.  Maybe you should back-track and read a little more on judging others.  I'm just sayin'.

Actually Paula, I was being quite objective.  If you took any of my observations personally, well, that pretty much speaks for itself.  How you spend your free time is completely up to you, just as what I choose to post in public forums is up to me, thanks to your relatives and *mine*.  I knew that what I was posting would elicit some strong reactions, but I had hoped for better than simple emotional outbursts.  At any rate, it is hardly a matter of free speech.  It is more an issue of how well people handle constructive criticism.

Regardless of how you *feel* about my observations concerning the utility of this site for serious career seekers, I see no one offering a sound challenge to them.  Instead I see fundamentally emotional responses and even a couple of remarks on my faith (as though such personal jabs might hurt).  That's unfortunate, but not unexpected.

Paula, I won't waste time being defensive or apologetic; my observations stand and my opinion is unchanged (but not immutable).  Just watch the recent activity monitors on the home page, watch the frequency of useful/relevant forum posts and the relevance and "freshness" of news articles being posted.  And after doing this, if you think my observations are off-base, then I welcome your counter argument.  But you can save the "judgemental" nonsense and the personal remarks.  My opinions and observations concern the web site as a whole, and not any individual.  If you find that offensive, then you're in for a tough time.  There will always be someone with a criticism of your favorite web site or online community.

And if you have objective criticisms of your own concerning my postings, I am happy to enter into discussion or debate.  I promise that I won't take it personally.

Seems this forum has gotten way off track. I personally recommend we all let go of the "personal" comments and get back to IT topics. My posts have been purely an attemp to share what I've learned in the IT arena over 35+ successful years. I can add, from a non-exclusive-to-iIT view, that anger and targeted verbal shots do not achieve successful results - at. least not in my experience. Ken started this thread to gather useful  career ideas, so how about we share those - and no matter who offers any view, we can all "take it or leave it", and if we don't agree, or don't understand, then ask more follow on questions.  We can definitely agree to disagree on lots of things. And we all need to be careful to remember there are other perspectives than our own.

Hmmm.,  been a few weeks since I checked in here, seems things have drifted a bit.  Let me add my comments, FWIW.

Hopefully these comments can be used to get things back into some sort of perspective.

Everyone has their opinion. Whether it is this forum, or a "professional" counselor, any advice needs to be put in its proper context.



Don't ever forget... Talk is cheap, ideas are dime a dozen. When asking directions to a goal, first ask if the person giving the directions has ever been there themselves.



When asking questions of friends, or "experts", make sure the answers are based on the same marketplace conditions as your own.



Geography - results may vary from one region of the country to another



Size - what is the population of the market areas you are comparing



I live near a major metropolitan area on the east coast, if I tell you a specific area of study is hot, that may not be true for your neighborhood if you are living in a small town in the mid-west.  How much are you willing to travel? or relocate?



When asking questions, you want an answer based on experience, not speculation. Establish their experience. When talking to people phrase questions in such a way that the person being asked will not feel obligated to guess.



My goal is to provoke thought, not give specific advice.  Talk is Cheap, Wisdom is Priceless.

Kenneth,

I was actually in school for business management, realized I hated it with a passion, and then discovered the IT program.  I've always been a computer lover since the days of Mavis Beacon in kindergarten. I pretty much realized that I could get paid to work with something I enjoy so much.  So, I switched my degree to IT, found a great job at a chemical plant, and have been enjoying myself so far.  I had worked in the cafeteria of the plant for two years, made the right friends, and so when a Tier I Computer Technician position opened, I jumped right on it.  I guess it pays to work hard and to get to know the right people. :)