General Forums >> The Future of IT >> Poll: IT for the Newbie's
Poll: IT for the Newbie's
Poll: How long have you been in the IT field
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Posted 5 months ago Generally it’s not like me to start something like this, but I think it’s time for us new guys (Newbie’s) to have a place to talk where people will understand what we are trying to say. I am 49 years old and last year I decided to switch careers. I have always wanted to be involved in computers; in fact, back in 1983 I did take some classes to learn what was then called Basic as well as FORTRAN and COBOL. At that time, I was young and dumb and couldn’t see myself sitting behind a desk solving logic problems all day, so I went a different direction. Now I am back and I am in my second year at Indiana University Southeast a campus of IU about 15 min from Louisville, KY. I spent my first year getting most of my academic classes out of the way, so I could focus on my new career in IT.
Anyway, to get to my point I know I am not alone out there, and there are a lot of people who are making a similar switch or just started to learn about the IT filed. Whenever I visit forum based web sites, it always seems to be those who are experts in the field or at least know quite a bit about the topic are the ones doing all the writing. That can be a little intimidating for us newbie’s, most of the time we (I) may not even have a clue as to what you are talking about. Therefore, I want to try something a little different for us (Newbie's), let’s talk about things that we need or want to know. For example, I just finished my first course on JAVA programming and I want to learn more, but I am out of school for the summer, can someone give me an idea of a good web site to read. I am also very interested in knowing which path would be best for me to take in the IT field i.e. (Data, Security, Web Development, ect) Where will the need be greatest in 2 or 3 years from now. What type of jobs produce the best income, things like of that nature. Maybe you just finished your first JAVA class but had some basic questions about Classes, or Methods and you where to intimidated to ask the pros.
Anyway, I hope the new people in the IT field will try to help each other through a forum like this one. So if you have a question or Idea speak up let’s talk about it in a language we can understand. If you are an expert in the field or have lots of valuable knowledge that you would like to share I would love to hear from you as well. Just keep in mind that no one was born with this knowledge and everyone had to start at the beginning.
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| Posted 5 months ago Hey! It sounds like me writing this...but I know I didn't! I just turned 50 in March and have just finished my first year at a local Jr. College trying to change careers into IT. Many of the other boards are soooo negative. I am trying to figure out what specific direction I need to go in order to make a better income asap. I left teaching a year ago after 18 years realizing I had pretty much maxed out that income. I talked to a prof at another college a couple of weeks ago about specific areas....he was very negative. I was looking into DBA, but he said it was very stressful...walking around with 3 pagers and 2 cell phones and being on call all of the time. He also said that developer jobs were all going overseas. He did say that mobile computing was going to be big and hot, but he couldn't find an instructor to teach those courses. So, if anyone has any suggestions, please send them our way! I'm with ya Kennethfsk!
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| Posted 5 months ago Hey Robert
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| Posted 5 months ago Actually, I am not a newbie and have been in the software business for over 35 years. I have a couple of comments on your posts. First of all, in thinking about future needs, to me the most critical areas in software in the next few years will likely relate to security and application interoperability. The need for "clever" security is obvious from all the spam-blocking, virus-checking, etc. offerings you have to run on your own machine to avoid corruption and/or theft. Just imagine applying protection to the thousands of networked machines managed by a large organization without degrading their ability to actually get work done ! Second, iInteroperability refers to the ability for separate applications to execute functionality through shared executables that use commonly-defined API's (application programming interfaces), And the reuse of all the "interoperable" executables makes the security management even harder. So - security is key for sure, and how to manage the "interoperable" executables while maintaining what looks like a single application process is the name of the game for the future. You may have seen many references to SOA (Service Oriented Architecture) and that is the buzz word for well designed executables that lend themselves to reusable "interoperability" (executables that can be reused vs. recoding them every time the functionality is needed). Think about the many travel sites that all offer airplane reservations - they actually utilize the concept of interoperability through common API's across the airline industry where the common API's have been defined by a standards body - have a look at www.opentravel.org . As far as carrying around a mobile phone, etc. - when you work on any production system that is key to running a business you definitely may need to help fix a software-system-related problem, even if in the middle of the night. If an airline could not assign seats, you would not want to be the one stuck in the airport all night because the responsible software folks were sleeping ;-)
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| Posted 5 months ago Thanks Barbaraec This is the kind of information that is real helpful to us new people, ONe of my professors is trying to push me towards security and I have been relutant up to this point perhaps I will speak to him again about it. I know when I look a job adds alot of companys are looking for people with that type of experience. It also appears to pay a bit more than most IT jobs, Would you agree with that Barbarec? Nice to see someone with as much experince as you not ony comment but still have a good attitude towards work. again I thank you. |
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| Posted 5 months ago Kenneth, I do agree that security jobs are growing in both opportunity and complexity - hence they often do pay more. Another good thing about security software is that it is less likely to get outsourced - i.e. sent offshore. Having spent the past 4 years working for one of the top two Outsourcing companies, I am familiar with what gets outsourced. The programs that "any good coder" could write are not as hard to send offshore as the ones that a company wants to protect from competitors. As you can imagine, onshore code management usually includes Government applications, security (surprise), and the key rules and proprietary details that are a company's differentiators. That's not to say being a skilled programmer is an easy task, especially to be a good one who writes clear, well-architected programs. But, the folks who will have less to worry about relative to outsourcing are likely to be the innovative designers and architects who work on proprietary and governmental code vs. straight coders who develop and maintain someone else's design. P.S. - security pays more because of its criticality and potential complexity, so it is also challenging (not easy). On the mobile software topic - I agree it has big potential. To create applications that can run on a small device and still behave with equivalent performance and functionality to applications that run on a bigger box (PC, laptop, mainframe, etc.) is no small feat. Plus their access is via small/tiny screens, and they may need data transmission to/from bigger applications and data stores. While all the while, they too may need strong security if they manage key corporate data. Mobile software is not just for games, and companies (think UPS, FedEx, Car rentals, airline schedules, etc.) are running their businesses off mobile devices. Tricky business, and requires very efficient code. |
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| Posted 5 months ago Again more good info, I am working with one of my professors at school to design a campus map in PHP that will be downloadable to a moblie device so I am getting some first hand experience in that area right now. I came up with the idea and the school loved it so we started it a bout 2 weeks ago because i am so new to this i feel like and elephant in a china shop not just a bull(LOL) but it is a great learning opportunity for me. |
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| Posted 5 months ago I know there are some other new people out there reading this so please ask questions and lets get some advice from people who know the business. |
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| Posted 5 months ago I got my start in the IT field late in life, as you did Kennith. I don't know if I had a mid-life crisis or what. I had been in retail for 25 years and knew I couldn't do it any more. It all started when I got involved with a group of people who are scattered all over the globe. They taught me a lot of things. My first experience doing any type of coding was with MSN groups. Next it was MIRC scripts. Then it was image editing. From there it developed into a Love of Web and graphic design. I am the first to admit that what I know is a tiny drop in the bucket to what there is to know. I read a lot of information about how this IT job will be the best and that IT job will pay more in X amount of days. For me it isn't about pay or popularity. It is about doing what makes me happy. I started college at 40 years old and am at the tail end of my associates degree. I will start on my Bachelors in November at the age of 42. I will be done with college at the age of 44. A new life, a new beginning. I don't know if I would be in this field if it was available when I got out of high school or not though. At that age, I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. It only took me over 23 years to figure that out and I am still not sure. I have a lot of questions and I am never afraid to ask them. Typically if I want to learn something I will surf until I find the answer. I am a master surfer, LoL. I do have an idea for a group of professionals that outsource their IT skills, based in the United States. I started a group called Ring Around The Techies, if anyone is interested. Right now it is a lot of what if's and what I can do's. But I think it would be a way to combat the outsourcing that goes on over seas. If only we could find a backer.......... The forgetful fishy........I think??!!?? |
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| Posted 5 months ago Boy you and I sound so much alike except ad 10 years and you will have me. I hope to have my associtaes when I turn 50 and my Bachelors by the time I am 53. That site sounds interesting please tell me more. It sounds a bit like a site I went to work for called Odesk you can bid on jobs and get paid if you get hired. I though it was a great concept to make extra money so I tried it but as it turned out it is nothing more than a bunch of people trying to make a living at home. Not a bad idea the problem comes in when they bid aganist each other for the jobs they end up doing the work for nothing. I did a project to try it out and ended up writing 15 different 500 word articles about coins and they wher good articles too i made 27.00 for thas and said to my self are you carzy. The only ones really making out are the people who do the hiring they get the work for next to nothing. |
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| Posted 5 months ago I really just made my first post on this site because Kenneth's comments looked interesting. I seem to be getting hooked on sharing what I have enjoyed as 36+ years of continuous learning and success in the IT field. Personally, I feel like I have been well-paid for what I would have loved doing anyway - some people get "pumped" by gambling, etc., and I get "pumped" by figuring out IT solutions. And that leads to the first of several observations I'd like to sahre that you can "take or leave" as you wish: 1.) don't get into IT just for the money, or because you've heard it can pay well, but rather because you have a knack for it and genuinely enjoy it. If it feels tedious, it won't be fun and you could be the one "complaining about carrying around a beeper". 2.) there is no such thing as "completing your IT educaiton" - no sooner will you learn something than another new idea will supercede it. For example: First there were functional subroutines, then the big structured coding push (think Yourdan), then CBD (Component Based Development), and now SOA (Service Oriented Architecture), AJAX, etc., etc. - and they are really all based on similar concepts, but the sophistication level and enabling infrastructure has grown immensely. 3.) based on #2, there is a huge difference between 20 years in IT where you did the same kind of coding for 20 years (think COBOL - still jobs there for sure, and you can do COBOL component Based Development, but if you've been writing the same kind of monolithic COBOL programs for 20 years, no matter how well structured, you are likely one of the folks who have had their jobs outsourced, or eliminated all together) vs. 20 years of keeping pace with advanced techniques and being as in demand today as you were 20 years ago. 4.) be willing to use your own time to learn new things, even off the job. When PC's hit the market in the 80's, and before they became a real part of major enterprise networks, I decided to learn about them by creating a billing system for my homeown'er's association. The HOA ran our 850-home finances (invoicing, simple-interest late fee calculation, etc.) for several years (with free software), and I learned about the PC (think DBase programming). When the PC started to infiltrate our network at work, I actually knew a bit about how they could be utilized and hence continued to advance as a "leading edge" type employee. 5.) decide whether you want to stay a geek, which is a fine thing if the company you work for has a technical track for "advanced geeks" (think Member of Technical Staff at one of the companies where I worked that could achieve the same pay and level in the organization as a manager/branch manager/department manager, etc.), or a business-focused technologist who applies IT to solve business problems. Both are key and they are very different. So, when looking for companies to work for, be sure you know what you want to be, and whether the company actually supports (and rewards) the path that interests you. 6.) There are LOTS of IT jobs out there, and many could be for small start ups who offer lower pay, but back to #2, you would learn a lot and be able to grow from there. So don't focus too much on pay when starting out - focus more on doing and learning. 7). Do NOT use buzz words in resumes, interviews, or even on-the-job discussions unless you can back them up. They may sound cool, but if a little probing by a knowledgeable interviewer uncovers a lack of knowledge depth you could blow a potential job avenue. As a consultant, one reason I did well was that people realized when I made a recommendation, I had actually done the work before vs. relying on what someone else, or an article I read, said to do. An article I wrote for zJournal ("Truth or Consequences - Legacy Application Modernization") is an example of applying lessons learned to a major current business IT need. That article is still posted at http://www.zjournal.com/index.cfm?section=article&aid=608, and the crowning compliment was when competitor companies actually referred to it as pre-reading for their webinars. 8.) As you learn new things, try to relate them to why they are important, and not just get caught up in how "cool" they are (see #7). You could write the cleverest code in the universe, but if it doesn't provide value to a user, it won't bring much reward. 9.) Whenever designing something, think in terms of "jumping over the wall" and having to be the user of what you just produced. And remember that anything seems obvious and easy to use when you are totally familiar with it, and not at all easy the first time (think "newbie" as Kenneth pointed out to start this stream of comments). 10.) When starting out, take any job that gets you in a door to a place where you can grow. For example, my first job offered only $700/month pay in 1973, but I learned Assembler and was able to prove I had a knack for programming. After only 9 months I was able to parlay that into a move to the first big electronics/manufacturing company I worked for - at $1000/month. Those are my 10 thoughts for the day, and I have lots of other "truism" kinds of thoughts. But the key things are to really like what you do, have a knack for it, and never stop learning. Thanks for letting me get on my soap box ;-) |
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| Posted 5 months ago Again great words of wisdom, some of which hit home pretty hard. When I look back only a year ago as to why I wanted to make the change I can remember I as more moivated by the fact programming is something I always wanted to do, but 20 + years ago I took a different path, I now regret I didn't contiune on with something I started. I took classes at a local school and did well in Basic, Fortran, and Cobol lanagues, but at the age of 23 I just couldn't see my self stuck behind a desk for the rest of my life and thats when the tide turned for me. Well I am back on track now better late then never right. My bigest problem is finding the right direction to take there are so many different possibilities out there, and when you consider that what approach do you take. What lanaguages should I learn, I know HTML and A Lot of Java but that is it for now. I hear a lot of the JR's and Sr's in my school are useing Python, but how can I be sure what is the right one for me to learn and know the best, with the understanding I will know more than just one when it is all said and done.
So I will ask this question to you Barbarec if you could only use one lanaguage which would it be maybe your top three choices and why?? if you don't mind that is. |
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| Posted 5 months ago Kenneth - since you already know some Java, have a look at AJAX (asynchronous Java + XML) as a way to utilize your Java expertise. AJAX is a more advanced way of getting into the open web services world, which is the direction of most new applications these days. There are lots of places to find more on this topic, even on wiki's like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajax_(programming) - If you have a look at this reference what you'll spot right off is more of what I mentioned earlier, that the world of programming has become more complex with lots of new ways to do things. Make your way through how AJAX works, and you will have mastered a number of key concepts and how to utilize multiple programming languages. In the open world, Google has some good tutorials like those at http://code.google.com/edu/ajax/index.html. So, you can also make use of the free materials out there. And - by mastering concepts along with language constructs, you learn more than focusing on the syntax, etc., of a specific language. Anyone who is a good coder can learn just about any language - if they "get" the paradym the language is based on. If you've learned how to write object-oriented Java code, you can learn any object-based programming language. The deal is, you need to understand what makes up a "well-behaved" object. Plenty of people write Java code, but many also do not necessarily write good Java code that supports the basic object-oriented principals. Concepts first, and specific languages second. |
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| Posted 5 months ago Thanks Barbaraec I will look into AJAX I know I have seen it before but really didn't understand what it was. I think one of the most confusing things to me is which lanagauge is the best to work with. It is becomming clear to me that that doesn't seem to mater as much as how well you wirte your programmings. It would seem that you acn combine just about any lanaguage to another to get the job done. But is ther on lanaguage that is used more than any other by professional programmers, for ex Python. You said it would be best for me to learn AJAX if I put a good effort into using and understanding AJAX will I be able to aply this to most programs I write. I'm not sure I am getting my point across here as well as I would lIke to. I reread your last entry and I think you are answering my question, but the question about the best lanaguage to know still kind of haunts me. |
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| Posted 5 months ago Kenneth - I'll paste a page into this reply from another IT expert who does a good job of saying what I was indicating, and he mentiones several specific languages and when you would care about them. He too indicates there is no one language that is best - at least not for everything. My son has been using C++ for some time, not even mentioned here, and he's been successful in game programming ( at game sw companies), Texas Instruments, and now Intel - so, it's not just the language, but also the functional and technical infrastructure concepts you are familiar with.
What Programming Language Should I Learn?Published in February 11th, 2009
As I do my professional and personal work, I am always looking for the best tool for the job. In software development, there are several programming languages that can be used for a wide variety of reasons. I am often asked by people new to software development what is the best language to learn. They get confused when I ask them what they plan on doing. The reason is that people think there is going to be a best language for everything. However, everyone knows that there is no silver bullet. On the other hand, there are some languages which are better suited or more widely used in specific areas. So, given that idea, I came up with a list. Enterprise Software Development - Java is typically used in this space as people are moving many administrative applications to an intranet. Windows Development - C# should be used for any Windows development, this includes anything interface with the Microsoft Office Suite. Don’t tell me about POI for Java, I have used it, but the native libraries kick POI’s ass. Rapid web prototyping and anything WordPress - PHP is really good for rapid prototyping what a web site should act like. It may even qualify as v1.0 for your site. It may not be a good long term solution and there are better options for large-scale development. It is also the main language for anything related to WordPress. Web Prototype with a backbone - Python has quickly gained acceptance as the “next step” after PHP. Many current web applications use Python extensively. Adoption will continue as more services natively support Python like Google’s AppEngine. General Web Development - (X)HTML, CSS and Javascript must be in your toolbox for any significant web development. If you try to remain standards compliant (which you should) then you need to look at the XHTML standards. Data Integration - XML and JSON are the main data interchange formats on the web and in corporate development. With XML, there are various syndication formats (likely the subject of another post) and other business format standards to review. Databases - SQL is critical to almost any application. If you learn standard SQL, then you can translate this to almost any database product on the market especially the popular engines like Microsoft SQLServer, Oracle, DB2, MySQL. Toolbox - Every programmer should be able to do more than just program in one language. In addition, there are many scripting tools that can be part of your toolbox which can make you extra productive. Cygwin is a Unix shell that you can install on Windows, and I can not live without it. Unix scripting is very powerful when dealing with batch processing of files or even just interacting with the file system. Perl, the Pathetically Eclectic Rubbish Lister, is another language that can be used for web development, but it really shines when dealing with file and text processing. I know I have ignored various tools and languages, but this is really just a starting point. In software development, it is always helpful to keep learning new things and new concepts. If you really want to stretch your mind, start working in Artificial Intelligence and programming in LISP, or do some logic programming in Prolog. If you feel really adventurous take a look at Standard ML. I am not sure what it is really useful for, but it is a completely different language than most. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________ As you can see, your Java programming is a central language to know, and Python is one of several scripting/linkage software languages. Even Microsoft has their PowerShell that will have expanded support in the new Windows 7 about to be released this year. Hope this helps clarify, Barbaraec |
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| Posted 5 months ago Barbaraec says ...
Please allow me to offer some corrections: the "J" in AJAX represents client-side Javascript, which is completely unrelated to Java, and AJAX itself has little or nothing to do with web services, or the higher level SOA (Service Oriented Architecture). AJAX is all about RIA, or rich internet application development. In other words, making the client side of a web application behave (and occasionally perform) like a native desktop application, even though it is rendered in a web browser. There are various toolkits, frameworks, platforms and programming models that facilitate AJAX development. A popular, and coincidentaly well paying platform is Ruby On Rails, which in itself has various implementations. In general you can use any language you want on the server side, but the client will almost always be Javascript (if you want to limit yourself to IE you could use VBscript), and the interchange format will usually be XML or JSON (JavaScript Object Notation). To illustrate the point, you could have an AJAX app that is actually AVAP (asyncronous vbscript and Perl), and the message format could be some sort of character delimited plain text for that matter. You'd have to hand code the entire obscene mess from the ground up, but it would prove my point. Anyway, knowing Java does not necessarily make the jump to AJAX a simple thing. If AJAX really turns you on and you don't mind a more academic approach, I recommend becoming grounded in a couple of different things, maybe simultaneously if you can handle it: (i) MVC programming -- model/view/controller is THE dominant web programming paradigm for the server side; (ii) client side javascript -- this is where the eye candy in AJAX comes from, so pick a toolkit such as dojo or scriptaculous and learn what sort of hoops it can make modern browsers jump through; (iii) practice turning real life business problems into programming domain descriptions -- if you are going to use OOP correctly, then you have to be able to efficiently map the real world into the object domains and back again; and finally (iv) you need to know some SQL -- no self-respecting web application is without at some sort of a persistance layer in a database. There is also a bit of skill required to map from the run-time object environment to the database structures in the data tier. Yes, I know there is a lot of jargon in the preceding two paragraphs. Hey, we're in IT, and a big piece of any decent IT career is being able to baffle the newcomers and laymen with jargon! Read a few dozen issues of Computerworld, eWeek and InfoWeek, and soon you'll be spouting TLA's and buzzwords just like the pro's. But to get back to AJAX for a moment -- if you want to just skip all that academic stuff (good luck), and just go from straight from Java to AJAX in sixty seconds, you can try your hand at GWT -- the Google Web Toolkit. Get a good (free) IDE like Netbeans or Eclipse (now there's a holy war for you), install Tomcat and have at it. My boss never down-sizes, right-sizes, outsources or has lay-offs, and He's always hiring. I work for Jesus! Prepare your resume! |
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| Posted 5 months ago Barbaraec says ...
This was a lot of opinion. So to keep things balanced, here's some of my opinion, and it's worth exactly what you paid for it. Enterprise Software Development: do not overlook ABAP -- as the sales tagline goes, "The best run companies run SAP", and if that's true, then many of them do a whole lot of their core business programming in ABAP. Windows language: C++ remains quite popular for those that have not bought into .NET, or who want to target multiple platforms. Firefox, for example is written primarily in C++ (at least it was the last time I looked). PHP: I have nothing kind to say about this... what can you say about a platform that has no means of persisting a user session? Maybe my information is dated, but last I checked, PHP had to dump all of it's session data into the database at the end of every HTTP request. Great if you aren't doing anything transactionally intensive I suppose, but hardly scalable. It's easy to learn, and that's why it's popular. You won't find much of this in enterprise environments. Python is a great scripting language. Don't know about it becoming a dominant force in web programming though. I am skeptical. Data Integration: if you are only talking about web apps, then yeah, JSON and to a lesser extent XML dominate. But in the business world the EDI standards (EDIFACT, X12, etc) are still heavy players. Toolboxes: mostly agreed in principle, however, Cygwin is NOT a UNIX shell. It is a pretty succesful attempt to bring a POSIX environment to Windows. I expect anyone that throws Cygwin on the table to know the difference and be able to articulate it, especially in an interview situation. Perl... great fun... it's the Swiss Army Chainsaw! I do Perl coding when I want a change of pace. These days I would only recommend it as a hobby. If you want serious scripting with an eye to career development, learn Ruby or Python. If you are a Java fan, learn Groovy. And then the original poster goes off the deep end with Prolog, Lisp, etc... I think not appropriate for a newbie discussion. My boss never down-sizes, right-sizes, outsources or has lay-offs, and He's always hiring. I work for Jesus! Prepare your resume! |
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| Posted 5 months ago Glad to see someone else leap in here, and I agree with your comments. You point out yet more detail on why it's not possible to recommend just one programming language ;-) Many can have their place but some fit in limited, specific envioronments and for specific purposes. Also agree with the ABAP comment, and familiar with ABAP - plus MANY high-paying job opportunities are SAP related now days. Not sure I would personally limit myself to a proprietary solution, but certainly offers good pay and current jobs. Having spent 15 years with a number one CASE tool (IEF/Composer/COOL:Gen/CA Gen) originally from Texas Instruments, it offered great consulting gigs for many years, and is still in use now, but just many fewer gigs. And if you want to drag out a dynosaur that still has numerous gigs, try COBOL - still runs MANY company businesses, and is not taught in any schools that I know of, so demands decent pay to find a well-versed programmer when needed. As you indicated, and I was trying to indicate, you need to be sure you understand about the gamut of languages and their uses - and do that not just by constant reading, but actually get some hands-on experience, even if in your "basement". And it still comes back to being a good programmer in general - get the concepts down, and apply the right language as appropriate. |
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| Posted 5 months ago One comment to add to the "J" in AJAX does not stand for Java and is not related to "SOA" - if there is no good set of object-based services for the AJAX script to access, then it would be pretty useless, at least from a business or even every-day-user perspective. While AJAX may be scripting the surface, the concepts learned by developing well-behaved EJB's (for eample) to support the AJAX app are the other half of a useful equation. And as pointed out from the beginnings of this discussion, the deal is that technology changes almost as fast as you can learn about it. So Kenneth, you wanted to know "what language to learn" and you can see numerous in this discussion thread. You might want to learn C++ to go along with your Java and focus on the concepts of writing good object-based code that can offer useful, independant services to the potential scripting apps using them (AJAX, etc.). |
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| Posted 5 months ago Again, please let me extend my gratitude to those who are willing to share this information with use new folks. Many of us are on a difficult mission in life right now. The economy is in the toilet and the country is in a state of insecurity the unemployment rate is up higher than it has ever been in my life time, and people are struggling to make ends meet. I am one of those people and the only way I can make this journey with any degree of success is to be able to rely on people like you. We tend to forget these types of things as we get tied up in our everyday lives, but please understand that what you are doing is making a difference in other people’s lives and I for one am truly grateful for that. Your knowledge and information is priceless to me and I want you to know that even though you may not be getting paid in a monetary way for your help my prayers for you and your loved ones continue on a daily bases. This is the only way I can truly repay your kindness. So please continue to support your fellow inside Tech friends, I think this is one of the true purposes of a site like this one. The last thing I want to do is start some kind of information war here, or who knows more than the next guy kind of stuff. This is what happens on all the other forums, and then we lose sight of the original perspective. I think it is great that both of you are will to spend a few minutes of your valuable time to give us this info. It is starting to become obvious to me that I will have to find an area that I am comfortable with and go for it from there. The one thing I am starting to understand clearly is it is not so much what language you use but how well you use it.
I am using Bluej as my IDE that is what they used at IUS to teach us Java. I think it is a great tool because you get to see your results quickly, however my issue with Bluej is I don’t think it is very popular in the real word and IDE’s like Net Beans or Eclipse are more popular ones. My question here is am I spoiling myself by using Bluej. Should I get on board with a different IDE to get more comfortable with the different types or is Bluej okay? If I should use a different IDE what would you recommend for someone at my skill level to use.
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| Posted 5 months ago Kenneth - good question about what IDE to use, and right on to mention that it is easy to get into ideology, etc., wars if not careful. Also correct that "the war" is not as critical as your knowledge about how to design/structure/code software correctly. Glad you picked up on that. And hence the tools out there to model architectures, applications, etc.(like UML - Unified Modeling Language) before actually coding them - to be sure the "pieces" will be well-architected before you write all the code. As far as a specific IDE, I am not familiar with BlueJ in the business world. For some time, NetBeans and Eclipse went through one of those "holy war" contests, and to my knowledge, Eclipse is the winner (witness the number of vendors/applications/etc. developed with each - including Microsoft who bought into Eclipse after several years of trying to derail other IDE's with its own new offering). You can see many Eclipse offerings from IBM, Microfocus, etc. So learning about Eclipse is a good idea - most hiring companies do look for familiarity with the "popular" tools, espcially because it means you can "hit the ground running" with less up-front training if hired.. |
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| Posted 5 months ago Check out this web site that has some good, free documents on languages, etc. - cheat sheets. http://refcardz.dzone.com/?oid=ban00021-0
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| Posted 5 months ago Thanks, that is great info, and pleases call me Ken in the future Kenneth is to formal and I only use it for formal paper work and stuff. I guess when I came up with my e-mail address and used kennethfsk it kind of stuck but I would prefer Ken. I have been trying to decide which one to down load so I will go with you on this and try eclipse. You should look at Bluej.com it is being used in most of the schools today to teach Java and other languages if not mistaken, but it is cool for what it does. If you design a class and want to see an instances of it (provided it has a function) then Bluej will show you that instances with a click of a button. Example if you designed a canvas and wanted to draw a reds circle on it would show you the red circle as soon as you compile it. I understand that other IDE’S don’t do that and you have to take many more steps to see what it is you just created, of course I haven’t used any other IDE’S so I may be miss informed but I will soon find out won’t I. |
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| Posted 5 months ago OK - Ken it is. And yes, there are other IDE's that offer immediate use of what you just created, including the "ancient" CA Gen (Computer Assciates now owns and still sells Gen - which, by the way, creates Java code along with COBOL and several other languages from models) I mentioned earlier that has provided run-time testing since the 80's. So that's a good feature, and BluJ is not the only IDE to offer it. The site with "cheat sheets" I referenced has one on Eclips - lots of good info there. |
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| Posted 5 months ago Thanks I am going it check it out later today, I'll let you know how that is going after I have tried it a bit. Way back in 1983, after I got out of the Marine Corp I went to school to learn Basic, COBOL, and FORTRAN, but I don't remember any of it. I went in a different direction, which I am still kicking myself in the butt over but any way that is water under the bridge. I was good at it too my instructor told me I would do well and I had a job lined up with a company after I finished school I just didn't finish it. I thought at the time i just wouldn't be happy sitting behind a desk all day solving logic problems. I am a people person and like to face to face. I lot has changed over the past 25 or so years since then and know all I want to do is sit behind a desk and solve logic problems all day(LOL) funny how things can turn around in a heartbeat. |
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| Posted 5 months ago As far as sitting behind a desk solving logic problems all day - I did lots of that in the beginning, and then as I expanded my understanding behind good program, application, and then architecture designs, along with business comprehension, I managed to move into consulting where I had so little time behind a corporate desk, and so much time helping customers with their designs/architectures, that the company finally took away my formal office because I never used it. Plus I accrued more than 3.5 million (yup - that's million) miles on American Airlines getting to customer locations ;-) I still love programming - and can get so immersed in logic problems that all of the sudden hours have passed and I am still sitting in front of my laptop. So - learn to be a good coder, and depending on what else you take the initiative to learn, you may, or may not, be in front of a PC all day. |
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| Posted 4 months ago
This is very true. When I get my bachelors degree, it will probably be in informatics. This is a new degree offered at Indiana University southeast. It is supposed to be the first school to offer such a degree, but it is based on your abilities to communicate with people on all different levels. A person with an informatics degree is someone who acts as a middleman for a large company. You have a few choices in which field you can go into Medical, Legal, and a few others. The whole idea is that let’s say you go into the medical field, well you will learn different things about the medical field like coding and things even some legal stuff, as an informatics person you act as the go between from the IT people to the Doctors be able to translate what someone wants or needs into a language that the IT people can understand and vice versa. I am sure you have heard of this before, anyway that’s the direction I seem to be heading towards. The courses I am taking for my Associates degree are in line for those needed to get my bachelors in informatics. I hope I am making sense here. I am trying to write this and twenty different things going on my head at the same time right now.
My ultimate goal would be to go into research in the medical field particularly 3 D diagnoses and its computer design. I may not make it that far but that would be my dream. I want to be able to help people with the knowledge I obtain with computers.
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| Posted 4 months ago Ken, I would call what you are describing either a Business Analyst, or a Business/IT Liason. And it can be an excellent direction to take once you learn enough about the IT enablers and the functional topic you choose. On my last job, I played a similar role - helping define and manage consulting services by practice (Business Process Management, Management of Change, Application and Infrastructure Architectures, Application Modernization, etc., etc.) in support of the Transportation vertical (about $2B revenue business). We (consulting) provided specialized services to clients paired up with the direct account service team. So - we had Healthcare, Energy, Financial, Manufacturing etc., functional verticals that were supported by IT Consulting experts with background related to the verticals and I was the Industry Channel Leader for Transportation. Sounds like what you are describing - with enough expertise to bring new, productive, appropriate, proven solutions to IT engagements. Sounds like a good choice - with lots to learn. |
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| Posted 4 months ago kennethfsk says ...
Let me begin by saying that I know nothing of IT as it relates to the medical industry, other than the acronym "HIPA." From my experience and observations in "the exciting world of Fortune 500 IT", what you describe leads in either of two mutually exclusive directions: (1) Concentrate on a business focus and leave the translation into technology and implementation to someone in an architect role, or (2) Focus on the technology with an eye towards becoming an architect (all while keeping the business within your "peripheral field of vision" so to speak). Role #1 requires a keen understanding of business drivers, constraints and needs, an ability to gather/formulate business and functional requirements and an excellent ability to articulate those needs, as you will be facing the business on one side and technically oriented but perhaps business-ignorant people on the other (see my closing point below). In contrast, role #2 requires a very broad technical background and a significant amount of experience -- most of these opportunities are created by virtue of reputation and history. #2 also requires some knowledge of the financial side of IT, as cost effectiveness is of paramount importance. You also have to be able to help the person in role #1 communicate the cost associated with the requirements back to the business stakeholders. Both #1 and #2 are what I call customer facing roles, and so communication skills are key to success. Role #1 might be easier to get into since it doesn't rely so heavily on IT experience (I do not know this for certain as this was not my career path). It may be possible to move into #2 if you get significant exposure to and experience in the foundational technologies for your particular business (called a "Vertical" in IT-speak). If you are interested in an architect role, my advice is to spend a bit of time studying the ITIL Services life cycle. My reasoning is as follows: Everyone in IT works somewhere in the ITIL life cycle, whether their company uses ITIL or not. (Many businesses do not consider their IT functions in terms of Services.) Briefly, the phases in the ITIL (v3) life cycle are:
Most of the people you might think of as being in traditional IT roles work in the Service Operation phase; this includes the sys admins, help desk staff, support engineers, operators, etc. The people that do Change Management, Training, IT Knowledge Management and that sort of thing are in the preceding phase, Service Transition. The QA folks are also in the Transition phase, as are the release management people (they're the ones that manage source control, do the builds and distributions and that sort of thing). The programmers/developers work in the Design and Transition phases. Architects work primarily in the two phases at the beginning of the life cycle: Service Strategy and Service Design. Finally, everyone is involved in the phase that brings it full circle, which is Continual Service Improvement. I believe that knowing where you are in the Services Life Cycle can facilitate a career strategy for navigating to another position within that life cycle. For several years I was doing this unknowingly, and it was only later when I got my ITIL Foundation certification that I realized how I had managed to accomplish my career goals up to that point. My last point is this: a very common stumbling block to many technical professionals in corporate IT is a lack of understanding of their employer's business. I cannot tell you how many times I hear engineers express a total lack of regard for the business drivers and issues that govern their employment, choosing instead to focus solely on their niche in technology. I personally believe that this is the single biggest contributor to "plateauing" in a technical career. Also, technical people who wear blinders are the first to be blindsided. I hope that you find some of this helpful as you develop your career aspirations. My usual disclaimers apply: the preceding opinions are worth no more than what you paid for them & YMMV. My boss never down-sizes, right-sizes, outsources or has lay-offs, and He's always hiring. I work for Jesus! Prepare your resume! |
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| Posted 4 months ago
Thanks to the both of you for your recent posts. This field I am talking about is down the road and I realize I will not be able to just jump into this position with out the proper knowledge. I am still not sure at this point where I want to land and taking things one step at a time. Mrpunkinguy form what I have been explained by the Professors at my school it doesn’t sound like what you are talking about. I guess they were right when they told me this is a new field with in the IT world. Perhaps I am not explaining it right but in a nut shell, you work for a company in your chosen filed and translate back and forth between the IT people and the end users. Now they may be a doctor or a lawyer in a large firm, but it is designed to help reduce the friction or miscommunication between IT people and end users. This is why they teach you about both different fields in the same degree. For example, let’s say a doctor comes up with an idea on how to get pieces of software to work better or be more users friendly. Now the doctor goes to the IT people and tries to explain what it is and wants done, but doesn’t know all the proper terms to use or the correct avenue to approach. Let’s say you reverse the situation and an IT person comes up w2ith a great way to improve a piece of soft ware but has a problem explaining it to the doctor who would need to sign off on the project to get it funded. If the two can’t communicate, many great ideas may be passed on just because one couldn’t understand the other. This is where an informatics person could be of great value because he understands both languages and can translate for the two to get a better understanding of what is going on. This may not be the best description but I hope it makes sense, I will see if I can get some more info on it for you. As I was saying in the beginning though this just seems to be where I am heading now, I may find a different path as I go and I am leaving my option open. The basic goals I have in mind are to try and help people through my knowledge of computers. I want to be involved in making a difference in people’s lives. This is just something that is personnel and important to me.
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