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Obama's Tax Plan Raises High-Tech Hackles
Michael Liedtke / Associated Press
May 05, 2009
SAN FRANCISCO – President Barack Obama’s plan to impose U.S. taxes on corporate America’s overseas profits threatens to open a big crater in the financial statements of technology companies.
While additional taxes are rarely popular, Obama’s decision to go after corporate earnings outside the United States is a particularly prickly subject for technology executives because the industry has been steadily boosting its overseas sales amid rising demand for its gadgetry and services.
If Obama’s proposal becomes law, the hard-hit companies would include tech bellwethers like Hewlett-Packard Co., IBM Corp., Cisco Systems Inc., Microsoft Corp. and Google Inc. Each of those companies realized a benefit of more than $1 billion from lower foreign tax rates in their most recent fiscal years – an advantage that could lost if Obama is able to change the rules.
“It would be like an earthquake for high tech,” said Carl Guardino, chief executive of Silicon Valley Leadership Group, an industry trade association. “On a Richter scale of 1 to 10, this would be a 12.”
Collectively, HP, IBM, Cisco, Microsoft and Google lowered their tax bills by a combined $7.4 billion in their last fiscal years by taking advantage of lower tax rates outside the United States, according to an analysis by The Associated Press.
Through the years, these five tax companies have avoided U.S. income taxes and foreign withholding taxes on a combined $72 billion in undistributed earnings from their foreign operations.
While Obama’s proposal might not tax all the money U.S. companies keep overseas, it apparently would target a big chunk. Obama estimated his plan would raise a total of $210 billion, or an average of about $21 billion annually, over a 10-year period.
By reinvesting their earnings overseas, U.S. companies insulate themselves from much higher tax rates had the money been made in their home country.
Google, for instance, would have been hit with an effective tax rate of 45.2 percent instead of 27.8 percent last year if it hadn’t been able to capitalize on lower rates overseas, according to the Mountain View-based company’s annual report. Without the lower foreign rates, Google’s 2008 tax bill would have been $1.02 billion higher. Google’s income before taxes totaled $5.85 billion last year.
Obama has been strongly supported so far by Google CEO Eric Schmidt, who campaigned for the president last year and has subsequently served as a technology adviser.
omegajma
6 months ago
8 comments
I didn't realize this was a political site. I for one agree with the White House's Tax Plan here. We need to invest in our technological growth at home and in our people first. These monopolies should pay taxes along just like any other. Shelter should not be provided to the giants. Even the playing field
jimicar
6 months ago
2 comments
Thank you dredwine for shedding the light and so ‘Eloquently’ giving us; as Paul Harvey used to do on his program; The Rest Of The Story… and yes, they are all traitors!
rjhelweg
6 months ago
2 comments
Many of my friends and I have just lost their jobs at IBM for one and only one reason, and we were told this "... because we have to send the jobs to India". It is one thing if a business does this to survive but completely another if our government encourages it through their tax policy. I am a dye-in the wool" conservative, but if Bush and our congress has allowed this then shame on them. My problem is I can't believe that Obama's policy is nothing more than self-serving. This is easy. STOP ALL TAX BREAKS FOR SENDING JOBS TO INDIA, and THE US GOVERNMENT SHOULD DO NO WORK WITH COMPANIES THAT ARE SENDING WORK TO OTHER COUNTRIES. ANY WORK DONE FOR THE US SHOULD BE DONE IN THE US. If other businesses that do not do work for the government want to ship their work out to other countries - fine but as consumers we need to vote against those companies by not buying their products and services. One is a government issue the other is a consumer issue.
jrolader
6 months ago
32 comments
Profitable multinational companies are not trying to "escape the law" by operating internationally. They are not hiding money in undisclosed accounts in other countries to avoid paying taxes. They are paying taxes on the wages and profits in the countries in which they operate AS REQUIRED by the law in those countries. If I want to start a business, and American tax law makes it very difficult to expand, I might just set up my home base in another country altogether and export to the U.S. instead. Would that be better?
Plus, when domestic (U.S.) growth slows, companies must seek opportunities elsewhere in the world where growth is strong. If Obama takes away these opportunities by making them very unattractive, he is dooming these companies to years of poor performance and low profitability.
So many people don't get it -- companies don't pay taxes; we (the consumers) do! If a company's tax bill increases, that cost will get passed along to us in multiple forms: lower wages, higher prices, and lower profits. All a company is is a pass-through entity where money changes hands between customers, employees, investors, and the government. It's a zero-sum game; if the government seizes more, it comes at the expense of the customers, investors, and employees. Very simple.
If you think that corporate profits only affect the wealthy, think again. That 401(k) you've been paying into for 15 years that's now worth half of what it was -- its value is determined by corporate profits! If companies are barely breaking even, guess what? Your 401(k) value will continue to decline, these companies will slow their hiring, they will give smaller raises and fewer promotions, and all prices in the industry will go up.
If the federal government would simply reduce its massive footprint, cut its spending, and reduce corporate tax rates across the board (eliminating loopholes in the process), economic growth will follow. The U.S. already has among the highest corporate tax rates in the world. If it were more competitive with the rest of the world, maybe this wouldn't even be an issue.
optikool
6 months ago
6 comments
I'm glad Obama is doing something about these companies trying to escape the law. If I put all my money in another country so I would pay less taxes, I'd probably be thrown in jail. US companies shouldn't be treated any different. I don't know what Guardino is talking about when he says stashing money outside the country allows US companies to hire more US workers. My company is not hiring any more IT workers in the US and is instead hiring new workers in India. My co worker lost out on a transfer into a position he really wanted because my boss said he cannot hire anyone else in the US and they are going to be hired in India. Obama needs to also fix the loophole that give takes breaks for companies that do that.
Tb0n3
6 months ago
2 comments
dredwine and GnomeMax you are dead on. The current tax code that Bush imposed ENCOURAGED outsourcing. Obama is just trying to reverse the this trend. Every American in the technology industry would benefit. Who is Inside Tech speaking for exactly?
cmmdesign
6 months ago
2 comments
jytheitguy hit the nail on its head. Until the government learns to control its spending, companies will continue to look overseas for their manufacturing bases. When the government can be responsible in their spending habits and there is a reasonable flat tax rate without any loopholes, then businesses will be HAPPY to remain in this country. Until the government adopts these principles, this will never happen. And I won't be holding my breath.
ghendric
6 months ago
6 comments
"Government spending never goes down so taxes will always go up. Until the government learns to live within it's means (never going to happen) taxes will always go up"
Actually, the government will learn to live within it's means if the American people finally say, "That's enough!" and pick up their torches and pitchforks and remedy the problem.. Until everyone grows a set, the government will continue to do what they want to whomever they want.
Archer305
6 months ago
2 comments
"Look... taxing large corporations like Google like this is absurd. Eliminate their profits, capital, revenue and you take away their expansion and force them to "downsize" which means less jobs. These corporations that you hate are the source of jobs and money for millions upon millions of people. What is the point of working hard if the government is just going to tax you into oblivion. Look at California... They are losing business left and right because they tax their businesses to death. All of their businesses, even a lot of Hollywood production, is based in Utah, Arizona, and even Texas because they dont get taxed 50% for running their business. Now California is in a budget crisis because they ran off business. The same thing will happen here. What company wants to open an office in the U.S. if they just get taxed like hell. Our competitive edge will be smashed. Corporations are taxed all over the place between building taxes, energy, trade taxes. Some are taxed on their products, their materials, the medium over which information is transmitted. If you dont think they are taxed, you have never run a business in your life and have never really thought about how business works. Get over yourselves and look at what will really happen instead of looking with your ideological blinders on. They do pay taxes... 27% is plenty. Between that and the jobs they create, you should be sending them a hallmark card that says "thank you for being what makes our country great".
erehk
6 months ago
2 comments
THE WORLD IS FACING A LARGE AMOUNT OF PROBLEMS. ON INTERNET A LARGE VOLUME OF BUSINESS IS GOING ON, ON VIRTUAL BASE, OF WHICH NO ATTENTION IS PAID BY THE COUNTRIES OR THE WORLD. IF THE TAXES PROBLEMS ARE TO THINK AND TO ANALYZE FROM 10 DEGREE SHIFT OF PRESENT SYSTEMS OF THE COUNTRIES AND THE WORLD AS A WHOLE, A LARGE AMOUNT OF PROBLEMS CAN BE SOLVED..............
THE ABOVE IS NOT ONLY MY OPINION BUT CAN BE DEFINITELY PUT IN PRACTICE.
THANKING YOU.
SURESH CHANDRA KHERE.....INDIA
AttilaTheHun
6 months ago
6 comments
Uh, actually, corporations DON'T pay taxes and NEVER will pay taxes. Taxes are actually paid by employees and shareholders in the form of lower wages and returns. Get used to it - this is the change we can believe in. The thugs from Chicago have EVERYONE in their sights, not just the rich. This is what's coming everywhere.
dredwine
6 months ago
2 comments
"What a crock this article is. - 1st- The top corporate tax rate is 35% and that is for profits over $500 million. MNC's only pay the difference of their foreign tax, i.e. if the pay 12% India tax, they pay the remaining 23% to the US. The problem is that the Bush tax cuts cut the amount of tax paid to the US to 0% for those MNC's, but only for them. The result is that US companies who chose to remain here paid US taxes, and those that outsourced their jobs and factories to India, China, and Maylasia pay zero. - 2nd - The Bush Tax cuts effectively "stacked the deck" against the US economy, making it instantly financially more unattractive to keep jobs and factories here. OH, but those companies paying zero taxes, located in foreign countries, using foreign labor, and paying taxes to FOREIGN governments are still classified as so called "US Multinationals" which means they can sell their wares and services to Americans with no tariff, no duties, and no import fees. - 3rd - Last year US Multinationals paid $16 Billion in US taxes, yet paid $120 Billion to foreign government taxes. Why $16 billion when their tax rate is zero? Because as long as they keep their money in foreign banks, they get the zero US tax rate. When they bring some of their loot home to pay $100 million dollar bonuses, they have to pay the normal US tax rate on it. The US is where the owners like to live, they just don't want to pay taxes, and don't give a crap about our nation, our families, and our workers. - 4th - If I were a US corporation and President Bush cut my taxes to zero for all the money I could hide in foreign businesses and banks, and then someone came along and said "President Bush was an idiot and has destroyed our MFG base, jobs base, and economy, and you will have to bring Your money home and pay taxes from now on." I would be crying too, I suppose. Of course I could always move to India. But I don't see US corporate executives and headquarters doing that. If they do, good riddance, they're basically foreign companies with no loyalty to America anyway. At least then we can tariff the traitors."
kirkrr
6 months ago
2 comments
Exxon-Mobile got slammed in the press for Windfall profits of over $40B a couple years ago, when gas prices were high. Few in the press reported that they also paid $118B in corporate taxes, plus individual income tax. This was over 25% of the GROSS income. The problem is far more complicated that can be depicted in a short article. Instead of complicated tax code for everyone, it should be a flat percentage of income, based on where the income was generated. No loopholes, no tax havens, just pay for what is due for benefit received. AND, no graduated scales that are negative incentives to performance. Everyone pays the same percentage. Then you have 90% of the IRS looking for productive jobs, instead of being the tax police.
Account Removed
6 months ago
I live in the Rust Belt and agree with everyone so far except for begge. I wonder if he'll change his tune when his developer job is outsourced to Bangalore?
GnomeMax
6 months ago
2 comments
Having worked for one of these "major" companies and seen how they are diverting resources and workforce out of the US just to make even bigger profits - and avoid accounting for those profits - I can't say I'm sympathetic to their argument. It is well established that corporations for some time now have been paying a much smaller share of the total tax burden than they used to (leaving a much greater share of the total left to be paid by those who are now losing their jobs and wages to overseas cheap labor) all the while reaping the benefits of being here and using the very infrastructure that shared burden pays for. The burden hasn't gone away, just their participation has. The tax code has been manipulated into the mess we're in now and needs to be made whole once again if we're ever going to change course toward a more stable future for everyone. I am glad that our industries are participating in the new global economy - all I ask is that they participate in ALL aspects of the global economy and not avoid the responsibilities that come with participation.