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Obama's Tax Plan Raises High-Tech Hackles
Michael Liedtke / Associated Press
May 05, 2009
SAN FRANCISCO – President Barack Obama’s plan to impose U.S. taxes on corporate America’s overseas profits threatens to open a big crater in the financial statements of technology companies.
While additional taxes are rarely popular, Obama’s decision to go after corporate earnings outside the United States is a particularly prickly subject for technology executives because the industry has been steadily boosting its overseas sales amid rising demand for its gadgetry and services.
If Obama’s proposal becomes law, the hard-hit companies would include tech bellwethers like Hewlett-Packard Co., IBM Corp., Cisco Systems Inc., Microsoft Corp. and Google Inc. Each of those companies realized a benefit of more than $1 billion from lower foreign tax rates in their most recent fiscal years – an advantage that could lost if Obama is able to change the rules.
“It would be like an earthquake for high tech,” said Carl Guardino, chief executive of Silicon Valley Leadership Group, an industry trade association. “On a Richter scale of 1 to 10, this would be a 12.”
Collectively, HP, IBM, Cisco, Microsoft and Google lowered their tax bills by a combined $7.4 billion in their last fiscal years by taking advantage of lower tax rates outside the United States, according to an analysis by The Associated Press.
Through the years, these five tax companies have avoided U.S. income taxes and foreign withholding taxes on a combined $72 billion in undistributed earnings from their foreign operations.
While Obama’s proposal might not tax all the money U.S. companies keep overseas, it apparently would target a big chunk. Obama estimated his plan would raise a total of $210 billion, or an average of about $21 billion annually, over a 10-year period.
By reinvesting their earnings overseas, U.S. companies insulate themselves from much higher tax rates had the money been made in their home country.
Google, for instance, would have been hit with an effective tax rate of 45.2 percent instead of 27.8 percent last year if it hadn’t been able to capitalize on lower rates overseas, according to the Mountain View-based company’s annual report. Without the lower foreign rates, Google’s 2008 tax bill would have been $1.02 billion higher. Google’s income before taxes totaled $5.85 billion last year.
Obama has been strongly supported so far by Google CEO Eric Schmidt, who campaigned for the president last year and has subsequently served as a technology adviser.
highguard
6 months ago
18 comments
As a victim of off-shoring by one of the companies listed above I say let these greedy self-serving bastards have it.
Crackerjack
6 months ago
12 comments
Rather than taxing US companies more on their foreign earnings, maybe Obama should bring the tax rate in the USA to the same level as these other countries the IT giants are operating from. We have to be more global in our outlook, and the global equilibrium will be reached no matter what individual countries do. Eventually the countries that offer the most attractive terms will get global companies migrating there.
There has to be a more comprehensive solution than what Obama has tabled so far if these outstanding global companies are to be wooed to stay in the USA.
mikkiwikkiie
6 months ago
2 comments
Obama is right on the money as usual. As an IT professional I have seen hundreds of jobs in my field shipped overseas. Sorry CEO...your false pretenses are transparent.
NovusBogus
6 months ago
10 comments
Somehow I don't think giving companies a huge incentive to flee the US is going to help the economic situation. If they're going to get doubly taxed, why not just flip the current situation around and put corporate HQ in some other country and export to the US? Sure it's fun to complain about the big, evil baby-eating corporations but at the end of the day they're the ones employing the majority of the tech sector and shafting them, while maybe appealing to populist angst, means even less employment prospects for the rest of us.
yashodhar
6 months ago
4 comments
I think this decision would let the Software industry to migrate from US to other Asian countries like India, China or any other countries which give the benefits. Because the companies are getting better intelligent professionals for much lower salaries in countries like India. And upon that now..paying the taxes is a bigger burden to them.....is this the sign for technology downfall in US?? or is this the sign for better employment in US?? I think first one is correct..What do you say?
bwoodside
6 months ago
2 comments
The President does not want to go after overseas profits. He simply wants to close a loophole that allows companies to avoid paying taxing a American profits by have "companies" that are no more than a P.O. Box number in off-shore places like the Cayman Islands. Many of these companies are telling our IRS that the money was earned in another country and telling the other countries that they are American companies and do not have to pay the foreign taxes...so they end up paying NO taxes. That is wrong.
tea42
6 months ago
2 comments
as a former victim of tech outsourcing, i think corporate greed is the root of almost all our economic problems. i say to corporate thugs: quit your whining and pay your share like the citizens who actually produce do. big buisiiness wants government, the only watchdog for the people, to keep accepting bribes to look the other way while they fleece the customer and treat their workers like dirt. i have serious issues with obama & co on other issues, but if he really wants to make this right, he's got my support.
themigrant
6 months ago
18 comments
They weren't rewarded... they just left and said FY to the US. GW Bush waved as they sailed away.
The wrong thing to do is to go chasing after taxes and further alienating these companies, who are only looking at it from a business standpoint.
Nay I say, pull them back with lower-to-no income tax, and get this country innovating with Americans again. Our country needs to move to consumption-based taxes not front-loaded income taxes that are the favorite juggling ball of politicians who use income tax for every conceivable project they can think of. Sales taxes would be better, there's less resistance from people to pay a consumption tax and that means foreigners alike pay the same taxes as locals.
Wagnerjp25
6 months ago
2 comments
why in the world should companies be rewarded (with tax benefits) for locating overseas and taking jobs away from Americcan workers. I have worked in Silicon Valley for years and have seen industry leave the area to the point where manufacturing is becoming non existant. companies should be given incentive to stay in the U.S.
themigrant
6 months ago
18 comments
It's very difficult for me to understand why Washington can't just get rid of the income tax altogether, lower corporate taxes across the board, and let cold hard cash in the public sector jump-start innovation. If I didn't have to pay taxes on my income, and instead only have a sales tax, wouldn't that stimulate the economy? Isn't an economy about selling goods and services? Isn't a sales tax based on selling something?
Seems to be really easy to fix the economy. If corporate america had to pay no income tax, and only tax on sales, they too would return back to America so fast your head would spin. And yes, it would be fair. Imagine people at the lowest rung of the economic ladder, they work on a cash basis already, the difference is they'd have no reason to work outside the system, since everyone would be taxed on sales. The money brought in from sales tax alone would be more than all the effort spent on trying to make income tax work, even if it were less than 10%, because it would be equal across the board.
mrjoe
6 months ago
6 comments
here we go again: corporations crying about being given the responsibilities of individuals, while benefiting from the same -- and possibly more -- rights and privileges that individuals share. if i have to pay taxes to the US while employed overseas, then so should google.
guardino was quoted above as saying "If they face higher taxes on their foreign earnings, high-tech companies will be at a competitive disadvantage that will discourage them from expanding their payrolls". that doesn't make any sense, given that their aim is to reduce payrolls as well; not expand them. costs of any type cut in to their profits, which are the only thing on a ceo's mind.
we should actually tax foreign operations MORE -- not less -- than domestic. by setting up a minimum earnings standards among employers in our own country and not de-incentivizing the use of labor in countries without those standards, we effectively eliminate jobs for workers at home while exploiting workers overseas. yes, we should expand operations and profitability everywhere we can, just as long as everyone can benefit form it. not at the great expense of so many for the sake of a few.
i think it's great that google's erik schmidt was working with obama. there is much good that the high-tech world can do for the world at large WHILE profiting at the same time. but this should not be a foot in the political door for his company or the industry. kudos to obama for not playing favorites.
i would say "ceo's, quit your whining", but as chief representatives of publicly held corporations, whining is their job and legal obligation (that's how screwed up the system is). instead, i'll say that ceo's, while off-duty (and yuppies at-large, for that matter) need to get in step with the rest of world and realize the importance of the bigger picture (as people who view things at 30,000 feet, they aught to be able to make the adjustment).
bulletfodder
6 months ago
2 comments
Ok, everyone take a step back for a moment and consider. There is no 'one' sect that is the culprit of today's problems.
The US government is failing to realize that we are a capitalist nation, in a largely capitalist world economy. For our economy to survive and succeed, they need to think OPERATE like a business. Note: I did not say 'think' like a business, as the government needs to 'think' of its citizens first. They just need to take some notes from the playbooks of successful businesses and learn to operate both Efficiently and Effectively within it's means.
Unfortunately this is just about impossible 90% of the time because, by definition, the government is trying to please EVERYONE, and history shows that is the quickest route to failure. On this aspect of government, I only have this to say. Be a Parent! Set the rules, and abide by them. Provide the basic rights and needs to the citizens, and anything beyond that just encourage them to provide for themselves or start businesses! It is true that small businesses are the root to a good economy, but for them to foster they need a stable and PREDICTABLE government.
So as far as the government operation goes, I say back to the basics.
Now the goal of any and almost all business is for PROFIT. So we can't necessarily blame them for making decisions based on what allows them to make a profit... to a point. The line that gets crossed often, though most times it is quite gray and fuzzy to begin with, is ethics.
The point is that we need to foster an environment where those that hold the power in business have a simple and well-enforced choice. Either operate within the US, for the benefit of the US citizens, or operate outside the US and be treated as any other foreign entity, tariffs and all.
In that situation the choice will be simple for any business, which situation yields the better profit? This is where the US government will need to operate like a business. It will need to directly compete with other countries to offer a better cost to value advantage than competitors.
Now all of this seems simple, and it is. But the devil is in the details in as such as the question: How do we get There from Here?
I'm an IT expert and a Business major, not a political one so I wont assume to know the best methods or even the best starting point for this sort of change. But all I can say is my opinion is that someone needs to throw the brick through this glass ceiling.
pdriley
6 months ago
2 comments
To "jrolader"
You hit the nail on the head! High U.S. Corporate tax rates are driving businesses out of this country. Lower the U.S. corporate tax rate, eliminating the incentive for businesses to locate offshore. In addition, do not penalize businesses with double taxation, who choose to take advantage of emerging growth markets elsewhere in the world. We cannot continue to ignore the fact, that we have a global economy. The U.S. government doesn't understand competition, and is solely to blame for our economic woes.
Phreadd
6 months ago
8260 comments
The bottom line is, we need to make it more profitable for these companies to keep jobs here in the US. If it costs more in taxes to outsource to India or China, they will cease the practice.
These corporations will not suffer any major losses, they will merely shift the ballance back. They will do as they have always done and adapt their business paradigm to maximize their profits.
derwoodbluz
6 months ago
2 comments
Ahh, I wish life was as simple as you all think it is. If you raise taxes prices will go up. If prices go up sales tax revenue goes up. People buy less. Sales go down. Unemployment goes up. Prices go up. ... But while that is happening:
Government Debt goes up. Taxes go up. Government spends more. Debt keeps going up. Taxes go up. Business see less expensive taxes and wages oversees. Businesses leave. Tax revenue goes down because less worker and businesses are paying.
The problems:
Government spending is out of control
US Executives make too much money
US workers make too much money
Us citizens believe that they deserve to get paid too much
Our economy is based on making too much and spending even more
There are too many variables for simple solutions
Americans cannot understand complex solutions
Solutions remain simple and ineffective
We continue to switch between parties over decades who both give us what we want: simple solutions (that do not work)
Change = different simple solutions that still do not work
Watch we will have a republican president in 10 years or so
But we are getting better, evolving to a better race! (????)